No More Mr. Nice Pie
Baker's Quiz
Dear Readers,
Welcome to the Baker’s Quiz, a new series for DEAR BREAD! I’m sending this questionnaire to bakers I admire, so you can meet them — and we can all see what makes them tick. Plus, we’ll get a tip or two for our toolboxes.
First up is Ellen Gray, aka No More Mr. Nice Pie online and IRL. Ellen and I met through Molly O’Neill, author of One Big Table: A Portrait of American Cooking, and former NYTimes food critic and chef. Molly also taught food writing, and unfortunately, died five years ago and far too young, at 66. She left a treasure chest of food writing, and gave me, and many other writers, a strong network of food friends. I’m so grateful to know Ellen, as a writer, and pal. (Ellen wrote about Molly for Saveur magazine, and you can read it here.)
Ellen is a fabulous baker and writer who steers the ship of her life from Maplewood, New Jersey. She’s a recipe developer and former restaurateur; she teaches hands-on pie classes too. Follow her on Instagram for fun storytelling & pie talk. I highly recommend studying her recipes for all the pie facts you’ll need for Thanksgiving.
Just days ago, she delivered pie tips over the airways on WAMC’s Food Friday show, and you can listen to the recording, and dream about her pear cranberry pie, just like I am.
AH: Where did you grow up, and when did you fall in love with baking?
Ellen Gray: My love of baked goods was innate. I grew up in Far Rockaway, NY, in a multi-generational household where we consumed homemade cookies, cupcakes and squares of what is now called ‘snack cakes,’ daily after school. Dessert was served every single night after dinner and pie was practically a religion that we observed on Sundays. We lived within close proximity to the Cedarhurst Bake Shop. Now sadly defunct, I rhapsodized over the baked goods displayed behind their glass cases, particularly anything dressed in buttercream roses. I cannot remember a time when I wasn’t enamored with cookbooks, food-centric magazines and the A&P supermarket baking aisle. I watched Julia Child on the black and white television in the kitchen, thanks to my grandmother’s housekeeper, Jessie, who I credit for launching my baking education when I was five years old.
AH: Describe a formative work experience & name a few of the places you’ve worked.
EG: Every work experience in the food industry taught me something that I tucked away and revisited at future jobs. My first restaurant job as a busgirl at the Somerville Inn involved working a double shift on Mother’s Day; a master class in standing on your feet all day. A college stint at the Home Dairy Bakery in Ithaca, NY was where I learned how to inscribe cakes. It also introduced me to the intricacies of successful cake box folding and baker’s twine navigation.
One of the most physically demanding and yet rewarding jobs was at Tabora Farm and Orchards in Bucks County, PA. This was before farm-to-table was a buzzword and it was revelatory. Can you imagine gathering fresh fruit for the tarts you’re about to make from just beyond the kitchen door?! The owner was a former engineer who taught me about large scale production baking; it was the first time I used a commercial sheeter, a rotating oven and watched cider being made in an historic cider press. It also was a very up close and personal look at Thanksgiving pie baking on a massive level. I have the faded burns to prove it.
AH: Can you tell a work story that may not have been anything much in the moment, but turned out to be significant?
EG: Two clearly come to mind: 1. My husband and I owned a restaurant in Philadelphia for a decade. On a random, ghastly summer day in Philly, the HVAC guy was repairing our walk-in refrigerator and casually mentioned that all restaurant and bakery owners should learn the how-to's of heating and cooling repairs. He wasn’t kidding. 2. When I first started working at Tabora Farms, I was always the person responsible for the small, pick-up desserts; miniature tarts in particular. The owner would always try to convince me that there was “too much fiddle for the return” required in those painstaking sweets. This turned out to be oh-so-true and which is why I will never understand the idea of a mini cupcake. Ditto for fondant covered anything.
AH: When did you decide to make baking your career?
EG: My college degree was in theatre but baking was always a huge part of everything I did and everywhere I went. I spent several years ‘on the road’ with Broadway national tours and I think that ultimately sent me looking for a career in food. It shared the same excitement as theatre and was a creative, tactile outlet.
AH: Is there a person whose advice lingers with you?
EG: Oh, that’s an easy one, Jessie. Her talents in the kitchen were equally divided between sweet and savory, but her pies were legendary. Watching her orchestrate and create Thanksgiving dinners and Passover seders was dazzling. Her time management skills were astonishing; she also reminded me on a regular basis to always reach for the bigger bowl at the get-go. Sage advice.
AH: Whose voices do you hear as you work?
EG: Growing up, I was fortunate to share the kitchen with Jessie (who lived with us), my mother, and my paternal grandmother, Minnie. All three women were outstanding hostesses, cooks and bakers. Their presence resonates every time I step in the kitchen.
AH: Tell us about your writing process. Do you stop and take notes while you’re baking? Do you write in the kitchen in a notebook, or on your computer at a dedicated desk?
EG: For better or worse, I am a notebook scribbler. I am smitten with writing papers and pens, sharp pencils, too. I am always taking notes as I go, particularly in the development of recipes. Once I’ve tested a recipe multiple times, I then type it up on the computer, but it always starts in a notebook. I like working at my kitchen table and the dining room table. In both settings, I’m surrounded by the furnishings, cookbooks and tableware echoing the sound of meals in the making and family gatherings from another time.
AH: Where can readers find your work?
EG: A compilation of my words and recipes is on my website, nomoremrnicepie.com
My freelance contributions are peppered in many places, primarily at SAVEUR, Food52 and Better Homes and Gardens.
AH: Where can eaters find your baked goods?
EG: I am grateful to have a dedicated pie audience that seeks out my baked goods through Instagram and my website; I also work part time at Three Daughters Baking Company in South Orange, NJ.
AH: What's your favorite food to make -- doesn't have to be a baked good!
EG: My favorite food to make is any pie that is in season. The rewards of getting your hands in pie dough is restorative. I also love preparing holiday meals because you are retelling history through food.
AH: Pretend you’re a baking doctor at a party, and a circle of fans want to know your best baking advice. What can you tell us in three sentences about pie?
EG: Pie is forgiving and wants you to succeed; if your results aren’t stellar, pie, pie again. Pie requires patience, cool hands, cold butter and a cool temper. Bakers often underestimate two key components of outstanding pie; a blind baked pie shell and more time in the oven than you think.
Well, I hope you are now as much of a fan of Ellen as I am!
To learn more, go to her website, No More Mr. Nice Pie; hunt through stories & recipes she’s written for Saveur; and drop her a line about upcoming classes! Best way to reach her is by email: nomoremrnicepie AT gmail.com
Yours,
Amy
Really enjoyed! Ps - I sent you and email :)
Great interview! I loved the “Whose voices do you hear as you work?” question and the always use a bigger bowl advice. 🤘🏽